Using an A/C recharge kit - mixing refrigerants?

"BaconSandwich is tasty." (baconsandwich)
07/12/2017 at 18:21 • Filed to: None

Mrs. BaconSandwich’s Pontiac Vibe isn’t as cold as it should be. The A/C blows cool, but not cold, so I picked up an A/C recharge kit. The instructions in the kit and on the cans of refrigerant say not to mix types, and to dispose of the existing refrigerant. The system right now is filled with r134a from the factory, and the stuff in the kit is 12a (which is supposed to be an r134a replacement. (Just the straight stuff, none of that leak stop stuff). I’m wondering - is it worth returning the kit I got and using something that can be mixed with r134a, or is it actually safe to mix r134a and 12a, despite what the kit says? I just came across another kit by a company called RED TEK that is supposed to be safe to add to r134a.

I feel kind of silly to ask questions like this, but sometimes labels are there for legal reasons (i.e.: cover their butts), while other times there’s legit reasons for warnings like that.

So is it safe to mix 12a and r134a, or should I pick up a different kit? It’s a minor inconvenience - I’ve got a full evening already, so it just means the job will be delayed another night or two.

DISCUSSION (25)

benjrblant > BaconSandwich is tasty.
07/12/2017 at 18:28

12A AKA R12 AKA Freon12 and 134A are not compatible. Do not mix them. You’d need to convert an R12 system to run 134A in it.

Textured Soy Protein > BaconSandwich is tasty.
07/12/2017 at 18:32

You can run 12a in a R134a-based system but you can’t mix both of them in the same system at the same time.

sony1492 > BaconSandwich is tasty.
07/12/2017 at 18:40

What does the kit look like? I mean to recharge a system with the proper amount of refrigerant you need a special machine that takes and stores the old refrigerant (and weighs it). And an very good vacuum has to be pulled on the system before refilling because air is bad.

I mean does the kit give you a way to know how much refrigerant has been put into the system? AC not blowing cold is not necessarily a low charge and even if it was you wouldn’t know when you’d put it back to the correct amount.

Sorry for being a negative Nancy here but I took an HVAC class and for month I was told how anything besides using the proper machine and gauges to diagnose and fix an AC problem is pointless. Which makes since because if it is fixed by adding more refrigerant it was blind luck without a decent diagnosis.

Rust and Dust - Oppositelock Forever > BaconSandwich is tasty.
07/12/2017 at 19:20

I wouldn’t mix 12 and 134.

If I recall correctly, one will damage seals in the others system. I thought they had different fittings as well, so systems couldn’t be mixed.

Just double checked out of curiosity, the oils are incompatible and cease lubricating properly.

I hoon, therefore I am > benjrblant
07/12/2017 at 19:23

R12A =/= R12

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > BaconSandwich is tasty.
07/12/2017 at 19:25

Red tek 12a, freeze 12, and a variety of others like them are not R-12. I don’t think there is actually an official industry designation of 12a, just a variety of hydrocarbon based refrigerant replacements that claim to be compatible with the mineral oil used in old R-12 systems and/or R134a. The EPA tends to ban them, which prompts another company to pop up with a slightly different molecule. They are officially imported only for use in stationary refrigeration systems, but conveniently come with an R134a threaded fitting on the can. They tend to be mixtures of butane and propane, which is an effective refrigerant, but is also flammable. At least in the US, they are not approved for use in mobile applications, and the EPA would certainly tell you not to mix them.

I wouldn’t mix the stuff with an existing refrigerant. It will have some different properties, and the can probably mentions something about equivalent charging weights to compensate for the different properties. I’ve seen Freeze 12 work back in the day, but that was on systems that been evacuated of their previous R-12 when an owner didn’t want/couldn’t afford to recharge with R-12 at $60+/lb or convert to R134a. R-134a is cheap at under $5 /12oz can at Walmart and requires no EPA license to purchase. There wouldn’t really be reason to backdate a system designed for R134a to R12. It would be a lot of work, and it would probably result in decreased performance from the system.

benjrblant > I hoon, therefore I am
07/12/2017 at 19:26

Thank you for the correction.

I hoon, therefore I am > BaconSandwich is tasty.
07/12/2017 at 19:27

Seems people are getting R12a confused with R12. They’re different beasts. As far as I know, R12a is compatible with R134a, but I would err on the side of caution and pick up the Red Tek, since it claims that it is compatible with either R12 or R134a. It’s entirely possible that the kit you have has additives that don’t work with 134a (or maybe it’s referring to not mixing 12 and 134a).

I hoon, therefore I am > benjrblant
07/12/2017 at 19:31

Sure thing. They chose poorly when naming R12a.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > I hoon, therefore I am
07/12/2017 at 19:36

So I just checked - the kit I bought is 12A.

Yeah, it’s probably best to pick up the other kit to be on the safe side.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Textured Soy Protein
07/12/2017 at 19:36

That’s what I needed to know. Thanks!

BaconSandwich is tasty. > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com
07/12/2017 at 19:38

Do they still sell R134a? If so, it’d make the most sense for me to use that. No need to worry about mixing things.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > sony1492
07/12/2017 at 19:42

No worries - you aren’t being a negative nancy. The kit is basically two cans of 12A, a small hose with a gauge on it, and fittings on both ends - one to attach to the can, and one to attach to the HVAC system. You are supposed to connect it to the low side of the loop, make sure the compressor is running, then open the valve until the gauge says that the pressure is at the right level.

Ideally I’d get a can of R134a, but I’m not sure - do they still make the stuff?

Like I mentioned, the A/C blows cool, but not cold, and the compressor seems to be running like it should, so it doesn’t seem like a compressor issue.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com
07/12/2017 at 19:47

Found this on their website:

“Although RED TEK® 12a is compatible with most existing refrigerants and oils, DO NOT MIX REFRIGERANTS. Mixing refrigerants is illegal in Canada and the US and will not offer the maximum performance available from RED TEK® 12a.”

The more you know...

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > BaconSandwich is tasty.
07/12/2017 at 19:49

Any parts store should have it, and Walmart sells it cheap.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com
07/12/2017 at 19:58

Huh. Maybe it’s different down in the US. I can’t seem to find it anywhere up here.

I hoon, therefore I am > BaconSandwich is tasty.
07/12/2017 at 20:05

You’re probably safe, but it would be a horrible thing on the off chance that you’re not

sony1492 > BaconSandwich is tasty.
07/12/2017 at 20:18

R134a is sold, possibly at autozone. And if it’s not it’s definitely available elsewhere since most cars until recently are r134a.

Before doing anything with the refrigerant check your in cabin filter, if it’s severely clogged it would inhibit cool ac,(because AC needs airflow over the evaporator to work.). Is the condenser full of bugs? If it dosent cool the refrigerant properly the AC won’t work right( compressed refrigerant gas comes out of compressor and into condenser where it is cooled into high pressure liquid.)

And make sure whatever you do end up buying has absolutely no stopleak or anything of the like. It will coat all of the AC lines, compressor, etc. And if something ever needs to be replaced in the system every single AC part that touched the stop leak will have to be replaced. The stopleak will contaminate the AC evac and recharge machines refrigerant supply and the machine itself.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > sony1492
07/12/2017 at 20:31

Yeah, I’ve heard that stop leak stuff is nasty. I made sure that the kit I got didn’t have anything like that in it. I’ll check out the cabin air filter and condenser before I do anything else.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > BaconSandwich is tasty.
07/12/2017 at 20:31

Oh, I didn’t realize you’re up North. I have no idea if 134a is available over the parts counter up there.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com
07/12/2017 at 20:33

Yeah, so far no luck finding it up here.